Legal Heroin – Chasing The Wagon


April 4, 2014 12:03 amPublished by 63 Comments


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Hey, Everybody.

Hope all of you are well and thriving. I thought of calling this blog ‘The Open-Minded Report.’ If your interest is sobriety/recovery, and you’re open-minded, I think you will most likely be relieved to read my musings. You are not alone, and no, you aren’t crazy. On the other hand, if you are a close-minded Southern Californian AA Fascist, you will probably hate most of my thoughts. For example … The Steps are NOT the Ten Commandments. So why do you treat them like they are? These days, AA is doing more to turn people off and confirm suspicions of it being a cult than it is to excite and inspire people to dive into a life of recovery. But I digress …

I think there’s one idea that ought to unite us all, regardless of your flavor of sobriety, or philosophy of recovery … so-called Harm Reduction. It’s a con in my opinion. I have seen the suffering and degradation is causes: the confusion it brings to the 12-Step community about who is sober and who is not; the irrational fear of detox, where the list of medications designed to help you avoid actually experiencing any withdraw symptoms grows longer and longer every year; and just generally, the lies and danger and horror it is causing. The medical profession and pharmaceutical industries drive the use of Suboxone and Subutex. This is code for ‘profitable to doctors and drug companies.’ They are putting young people on maintenance! I don’t know if you need to be a junkie to know how crazy that is. But it’s very crazy, trust me. Crazy that we wouldn’t give these kids a chance to lead a sober life, free of drugs. Even the drug companies who manufacture the stuff, in their original marketing material, specifically targeted older, ‘inveterate’ addicts with little chance of recovery.

Anyway, a quick Google search for ‘Suboxone Doctors’ will give you a little taste of the scale of this thing – it’s ginourmous. These doctors have clinics with up to 200 patients. So imagine if each of those clients are paying $1,000 dollars a month to be poisoned and sent to purgatory by Big Pharmacy, who hides behind reports of Subuxone’s ‘life saving effectiveness’. Of course, the drug companies, themselves, commission these reports. Their PR teams plant stories, and I’m sure even get involved in the comments section of your favorite online news sources.

It’s a modern day Snake Oil scam writ large, messing up the lives of society’s most defenseless folks – the sick, spun-out, desperate opiate addict. I would bet money that the doctors who pose as abstinence-based 12-Step supportive healers by day – here along the stretch of the Pacific Coast Highway that runs through Malibu, now referred to as the ‘Rehab Riviera – have two or three or four Suboxone maintenance dispensaries by night. Ladies and gentlemen, these are the worst kind of hypocritical cynics one could ever encounter. What frauds they are! These men (and some women) know nothing of addiction. They are the Snake Oil salesmen of the 21st Century. I implore that you who have survived the horror and nightmare of Suboxone start letting your experience be known. Speak your truth, loudly, to every addict within shouting distance. There is no hell worse than being stuck on 24 or 32 milligrams a day of this stuff, with no hope of getting clean, enslaved to the poison machine your doctor put you on, a doctor who took the Hippocratic Oath, pledging, ” I will do no Harm.” Motherf#&!ing lying sacks of shit.

Love n Peace,
Bob

Bob Forrest

Program Director at Acadia Malibu
The longtime partner of Dr. Drew Pinsky, Bob has helped countless alcoholics and addicts get sober and find their purpose. Bob Forrest is considered to be one of the finest drug counsellors living today, assisting everyone from award winning celebrities to struggling teens. His success in connecting with clients and their loved ones can directly be attributed to his knack for communicating from an honest place of understanding and compassion.

An addict himself, and a former resident at multiple rehabilitation centers, Bob Forrest knows that while safety, containment and repetition help, they aren’t the keys to recovery. In 1996 when he got clean, Bob started developing an innovative and individualized structure for the treatment of addiction.

Bob helps our clients come to a place where they feel they are really, finally accepting personal responsibility for their own recovery. By being in a less restrictive living situation — a positive, supportive living environment, in which they have to really want sobriety — clients become willing to do whatever is necessary to achieve and maintain their recovery. In this sort of an atmosphere, they aren’t just sitting around, but living free with their peers in a supportive, low-pressure, non-judgmental, hands-on recovery setting, a real home, in which they can actively participate in their own individual journeys into sobriety.

“I want to treat addicts with dignity, love and compassion. I’m going to be honest with them. I’m not going to be mad at them if they don’t like what I’m trying to help them accomplish. If they fail or stumble or are defiant, I’m not going to get into arguments with them. I just want to love, help, encourage, nurture and steer people in a more positive direction of life.”

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  • spk

    this stopped my raging out of control pill popping due to knee pain. 8mg Suboxone has given me control over my life as well as working a program of recovery. It does help a little with pain , I still am in moderate pain after work and at night. I wont go back to other pain meds because I know I have no control once I get them. Drs want to replace my knees but I don’t want the operation. I let them put metal knee spacers in my knees and never felt like I got mobility back. Its nothing I brag about, I’m 50 and my job continues to hurt my knees . I don’t abuse it , some days take less than am supposed to, so I dont run out and worry about withdrawl. When it came to other pain meds I had no control over my addiction. Been on this for years and don’t abuse it but I don’t feel as happy as others in the program because of guilt and keeping this a secret . I fear of being judged. It is a double edge sword when it comes to recovery. I have legitimate pain. It took a lot to write this but need to get it off my chest.

    • Dan Thompson

      I have pain issues as well and methadone for me saved my life I could work be a parent . I’m 2years clean in june . It is a double edged sword in recovery .thats why I don’t do na or aa but I have counselor who is basically role model . I think if the subs work for you then do wbat you need to when you are in so much pain you can’t focus .or have a life .

      • spk

        Awesome Dan, its wonderful to get your life back and have it pointing in the right direction. Congrats

    • Prospect

      Hello my name is Dillon j. Upon reading what you have written spk your recovery is your recovery it all depends how free of self you want get is up to u. In any addict that I have encountered the problem didn’t solely rest on the drug but on the person using the drug. I mean come on what are we as addicts supposed to do if we have to have a major surgery or something along those lines suffer. No we are no but here in lies the brutal truth of the matter if we are in pain from a surgery we may take what is proscribed as directed by a physician only and as long as we do this and don’t abuse the medication and we stay connected to our program then we are fine. So as long as u are taking the meds as proscribe I don’t see no harm in this but what u do need to do is get honest with your peers that is the only way get through things. I see u say having control no one has control that is not our problem our problem is lack of power and the only way to get in touch with that power is to be honest and responsible for our actions.

  • Huston Stolz

    I own an outpatient treatment center in Washington State and am a counselor there also. All of my experience has me agreeing with you completely! Once a patient is on Suboxone they rarely have any desire to taper or be rid of it.

    • Rene

      I love how People say this. I was on methadone for 3 years then on suboxone not even 2 months before I just quit taking them from 3 a day to 0. Guess what? I had very little issues with the detox, most being headaches for me, of course i WANTED to be clean. Nothing makes that little voice that tells me I need to use go away.
      Quit putting people down that use suboxone or methadone, you’re not helping anyone doing so.
      I hope anyone that’s struggling with opiate abuse finds their own way to sobriety. Keep your head high and your middle finger higher. Don’t judge others for taking a different path.

  • Erik Tumminello

    After years of drug abuse I turned to methadone after a while I turned to a seemingly lesser evil of suboxone after a few months of the meaningless doctor visits to get refills I found myself just as depressed and lost as when on heroin finding an emotional bottom after a large refill (supposing to last a couple weeks 2 I think) I flushed the entire prescription. Within the next 24 hours I fell into one of the worse withdrawals of a 14 year heroin addiction. Thus out of fear and pain I rapidly returned to heroin to ease the withdrawal symptoms. Hence I went back to heroin to get off of maintainence prescribed drugs (heroin to methadone to suboxone back to heroin) a vicious never ending cycle. April 1st I celebrated 6 years clean in the fellowship of narcotics anonymous I have a sponsor I am a sponsor I have a home group which I am an active member in and help out in H and I service every chance I get. Freedom from active addiction has been a great and wonderful gift but the true spirituality comes from being accountable , being a positive role model to my children and carrying the message to the addict who still suffers . If I can do it anyone can! From the streets of Baltimore city homeless hopeless and lost to a productive member of society ,father and son I one day at a time have arrested my disease threw the fellowship of narcotics anonymous

  • Shawn

    I think the real question is where you draw the line personally. Do I think synthetic opiods serve a purpose? Yes.
    Do I think someone should take them for the rest of their life? No.
    Do I think that withdrawal symptoms from synthetics are much longer and often worse than heroin? Yes.
    Do I think big pharma companies are to be trusted? No.
    In Thailand Kratom Leaf was made illegal because it was cutting into pharmaceutical profits by people trying to taper their opiod habits. I am a firm believer that, I do not in fact, know everything, and that I’m not a doctor. Just because I have an opinion on outside issues, like medications, doesn’t make them valid. To some, it could save their life, to others, it could be a hindrance. If by ‘clean/sober’ we are talking about ‘mood altering chemicals’ well, cigarettes contain nicotine and they alter your mood. In fact, Bill W. was a big smoker, it killed him. They don’t carry the social stigma that ‘legal synthetic opiods’ do of course. I guess what I’m trying to say is that if a person really wants to find, physical, emotional, and spiritual sobriety, they will find it. If they are looking for a bandaid instead, those are easier to find. We all take the paths we need to take to finally enjoy living our lives. Sometimes just not sticking a needle in your arm for today, is good enough. For others its not. 2 years clean and sober this month, grateful to be enjoying life, thanks for your time if your read this.

  • Anonymous

    Excuse me did you say clean time? You are not clean if you are still using opiates. Methadone and suboxone are both opiates. Just because they are not in your vein means nothing. Stop taking them both cold turkey and tell me you do not feel the withdrawls. The pharmaceutical companies create customers not cures.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t get me wrong. Taking meds as prescribed is ok. but doing so to get off of drugs replacing one with another is just that. I understand if you are in legit pain and that is what the doctor is giving you for it. But if you are going from heroin to methadone or suboxone to help you get clean and are counting the time you are on either methadone or suboxone as clean time you’re fucking retarded

    • Disgusted

      And this right here is why newcomers come in the rooms and sit on the fringes instead of getting in the middle. Because of judgmental fucks like this spouting off the houlier than thou garbage because “they did it without any help”. If you fucks would spend half as much time reaching your hand out to a newcomer instead of getting your panties in a bunch everytime someone says “clean and sober” or berating them because they used subs or methadone to kick and your clean time is better than their clean time, a few more might stick around a little while. Get the fuck over yourself

      • tiredwhitegirl

        amen!!!

  • C&SMom

    @spk wait until you do run out or can’t get anymore suboxone. You are in for the ride of your life. It took me 45 days to detox off of this stuff. I wanted to die. It was the most excrutiating pain i have ever experienced. And i took my suboxone as prescribed for several years. Don’t chain yourself to this stuff. The doctor told me I would have been better off detoxing off of heroin than suboxone. Because of the half life this stuff stays in your system and almost embeds itself. I didn’t get educated on this stuff until I was knee deep. Don’t let it fool you.

    • spk

      Thank you for sharing your experience . I realize the hell of detoxing oneself off this stuff. I have been on this for 5 yrs. If I decide on getting my knees replaced then I will worry about getting off suboxone. Maybe I wont have the choice one day ? I can admit that I am not sure if I will ever get my knees replaced. A career change would help get me off my knees but I am depended on and make a good living doing what I do for work. Should I get off sub and deal with the pain, and risk taking other pain meds, I do have legit chronic pain. I have had countless nights worrying about my decision to continue to abuse my body at work and the price there is to pay for taking suboxone. This doesn’t give much pain relief but it does help most days. I take between 2 and 8 mg a day along with ibuprophen or naproxen . I don’t think a rehab would take me as an inpatient or if my insurance would pay for a rehab giving my situation. In the recovery world I am not considered clean but family would disagree.

  • Cujo Cricket

    Thanks Bob, I been off dope and its brother Dr Dope(Suboxone) for 3 years now. I ended up doing it my own way after countless relapse from counselors who tell me odds and what most people do.

  • Alexis Neiers

    I struggled to get off of heroin and Oxys for years. The first time I was prescribed Subs, Valium and Ambien and I couldn’t kick the subs it was horrific. I ended up being prescribed subs for three months and was so loaded…And that was without using any other drugs. I ended up returning to Heroin. I am now three years sober and had to kick my heroin/cocaine addiction cold turkey. It was brutal but ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me. I have seen people get fucked time after time when prescribed long term Suboxone. It really is so sad to see a twenty something kid who used heroin for two years get hooked on and even worse opiate than they started out on. Miss a day or can’t get a script because your doc. Gets raided etc. And you are royally fucked. And yes doctors getting raided for writing scripts past their limits has happened on many occasions to a few of my friends. Then you are back to feigning and on the hunt for another “dealer” in this case your doctor to get you well. To anyone who is considering this drug I strongly suggest THAT YOU DO YOUR RESEARCH . You are not going to go back to heroin if you don’t go on suboxone maintenance. ..If you are ready! You are not damaged goods. Your body will repair it’s self . Wow that was a long rant. Okay bye.

  • tiredwhitegirl

    I am on suboxone after changing from methadone. I am sober 4 years and both these medications saved my life. nobody says you have to be on it for the rest of your life! having the opportunity to use these meds while gaining tools of recovery was what worked for me. I regularly attend AA meetings and have not once ever had anybody question my sobriety. I am down to 4mg per day and still weening. I tried many times to get sober and had no success until I got on methadone. switching to the suboxone was the next phase of my recovery, made possible by the amazing support of my sponsor, AA friends, and doctor. this next phase in my recovery is more than half way done and again, made possible by AA and the 12 steps and traditions. this was what was right for me, and I am so grateful. I would hope that any addict in search of recovery would keep trying to recover, no matter what path they choose and that in the future, we will no longer feel the need to put down others for the path they chose. Shame on you for writing this type of article!!!

    • Walt Sowers

      Sorry, but you aren’t sober if you’re using drugs. How awesome will it be when you finally WEAN yourself off and are truly clean and sober. I hope you can accomplish that one day.

      • tiredwhitegirl

        I will accomplish it one day, and I know I’m sober, I don’t need anybody’s approval.

        • Walt Sowers

          Didn’t you say you were on Suboxone? How can you be sober if that’s the case?

          • kinginyellow

            Really? It this kind of brow beating that made me sick of AA. Just because there is a stick in your *$$ doesn’t mean you have to wave it at everyone.

          • Walt Sowers

            Keep blaming others for your lack of commitment and you will never be or stay clean and sober. I hear the same from people all of the time. They think they are “different”. I’m so grateful to be just another “bozo on the bus”. My sobriety date is July 9, 2006.

          • janet

            Stop riding everybody.

          • Walt Sowers

            I’m not riding anyone. I speak the truth. The author of this article is dead on. Embrace it. It’s the truth. :)

    • Panthoras Box

      I agree with you- thank you for writing this. It would be nice not to feel I could share at meetings (especially in Santa Monica and Malibu) without the scrutiny…

  • Aaron

    Listen, bottom line is simple here folks. If someone is killing themselves with an opiate based drug and aren’t willing to go thru cold turkey withdraw then suboxone is the next best thing .. It’s not methadone and it’s not a narcotic .. Anyone that would like to argue that with me can go ahead . And when you do, I will be sure to post one or all of my 200 clean drug tests. I take one 8/2 mg pill of suboxone every morning and I give a urine sample twice weekly 3 and 4 days apart .. I test negative for opiates and for methadone while actively taking suboxone . So how is taking a drug that isn’t opiate based supposed to drive these people deeper and deeper into addiction .. If they do end up going deeper into addiction the answer is simple. They weren’t ready to stop .. Suboxone works, if you want it to . If you don’t then go back out and use until you’re ready . But please don’t bash someone for finding what worked for them to get clean .. Weather it’s a 12 step. a medication, whatever .. If they are clean now MISSION ACCOPLISHED . Am I saying that suboxone is good for you ? or that there aren’t side effects for certain people or that big pharma isn’t trying to rope people into prescribing and buying it NOPE .. All I am saying is that suboxone is a drug that if taken the way it was intended by someone who is genuine about quitting this is infact a miracle .

    • Buzz Sagen

      Uh … But you arent clean. You just stopped using heroin and replaced it with a legal drug prescribed by a doctor. The point of being clean is to have your sober mind back. To deal with the issues that made you unhappy or want to start using opiates in the first place. And to come to a place where you can deal without needing any substance. And you are obviously not at that place. So you are not clean. And you are most definitely not sober. You are just not using an illegal substance. Clarity of language is incredibly important.

      • tiredwhitegirl

        I’ve met many people who haven’t had a drug in their system for years who wouldn’t qualify for “sober-minded” lol many people stay clean and still act like dicks, the whole point of recovery is to change your behaviour, many people don’t, just saying….

        • Walt Sowers

          I think what you are failing to remember is the effects Suboxone is having on your body as well as your mind. As soon as you realize that you have a problem, you have made a step. Step one to be exact. I love you and want you to have what myself and many others have and because of that, I will not enable you. It’s my responsibility.

    • lance

      It’s a different test man! Stop rationalizing!

    • Walt Sowers

      Dude, I’m sorry but you are NOT clean. I haven’t had a pharmaceutical drug or any other mind altering substance in 8 years. I AM CLEAN.

      • Adam

        Who made you judge & jury of deciding who is clean? If I was an addict, I would never want to get clean because I would fear turning into you! People should do what makes them happy & at peace…for you that means taking no drugs (assuming you don’t smoke or drink caffeine, because both of those are drugs too), for others that means medications. I think someone who is off heroin but on meds not judging people is a bigger success story then your” all high & mighty” self.

        • Walt Sowers

          It is what it is my friend. I don’t do chemicals…period. I wish the same for you.

          • kinginyellow

            Being 100% CLEAN is not perfection and not necessarily the best option for everyone since everyone’s biology and mental landscape are unique. So please keep such wishes to yourself… makes you appear arrogant…. Which Is, What It is.

          • Walt Sowers

            My program works and I promote only what I have been taught. Call me what you wish. I am clean and sober. And you should direct your comments at the author as well as myself, because we both believe the same thing.

        • Walt Sowers

          I’m not judging anyone. You are under the influence of mind-altering substance. You said it yourself. I can’t enable you. Sorry

    • Panthoras Box

      Very thankfull you wrote this, stay strong and keep on, you have my positive best wishes.

    • adam

      I guarantee that the so called “recovered” drug addicts that are saying you are not clean probably smoke cigarettes or drink caffeine every day….why? Because they are addicted to those drugs, but they justify that it is ok since they are legal and u can’t get dui’s off them…talk about denial!!! Keep doing whatever makes you happy, & if that involves staying or getting off suboxone then discuss it with your doc.

  • Rana Miller

    I couldn’t have said this better Bob! At times I was higher on Suboxone and Subutex than when I was using dope. At $20 a pop in the streets not only are the doctors who prescribe this crap getting rich, the dope boys are
    getting rich too. It’s a trade, if you’ve been prescribed subs, or methadone you can easily trade for your drug of choice. So, the d-boys are coming up too! I was chasing that shit just like dope when I was in the streets. It’s a lie. That little orange strip that I struck under my tongue was just another drug to keep me prisoner to more dope. I’m writing a book (really) and it’s my memoir of an opiate addict that got her start from the pushers in white coats. Ohio has put a task force together to do I don’t really now what, but I believe its to spy on these doctors who are writing scrips to people who don’t need it and they are selling the scripts on the streets anyways. Just because the doctor prescribes it, it is not ok. This journey began with the doctors scripts, and end with me in prison, the mental hospitals, in the street with nothing, rehabs too many to count, treatment, the rooms. What you said about the rooms is so true. I know people feel that way, they are just scared to say it. Why not start a whole new program of recovery where people can get excited and be inspired…? I’ll come! My sponsor told me that I was not allowed to speak at the meetings because I had nothing good to say and should just take the cotton out of my ears and put it in my mouth. Do you believe that shit? God Speed Bob, you rock!
    Rana (Renee) Miller

  • John

    there’s no such thing as a painless detox, so do it now or do it later. It’s gonna hurt and it’s going to be weird….but not FOREVER.

  • anonymous

    I have been in and out of addiction for over 20 years and I am 37 years old so more then half my life. I was at one of the first treatment facilities to have suboxone in the early 2000’s and that time it REALLY worked for me because it was used very sparingly for detox purposes ONLY in a controlled environment by a doctor who is “one of the good guys”. However, like any drug it is prone to misuse by the addicts and corrupt drug dealer doctors. I have been on methadone maintenance countless times and have some some outlandish heroin habits, but I have never been on suboxone maintenance. It is just to scary for me to even think of. I am sober now and its crazy to me how mainstream suboxone has become and how many people are on “maintenance”. This drug is stronger than METHADONE for christ sakes and doctors are prescribing large doses of this to addicts (and non addicts!) and turning them loose with it!!!! A lot of people still live under the illusion that if a doctor says its OK then it must be, so I’m really glad you wrote this article. There are many sides to this discussion all of which need to be addressed.

  • Rachelle Haley

    I was on suboxone for about 7 years and I’m only 25 years of age. There was a time when I thought ur was truly a wonder drug. That us inhaler I ran out and there I was back on the streets of Detroit looking for my next hit of heroin. Who knows why a w doctor would keep someone on an opiate for this long. I know, MONEY. The government only wants to keep people addicted. Well not anymore for me. Clean and sober from ALL DRUGS, for the first time, 55 days! Stay away from suboxone it is no good and will only keep us sicker

  • BG

    I have taken suboxans for 3 months now. Went from a $200 a day roxy habit to 8 mg of the subs. I am a month away from stoping completely and getting my life back. If your in the right program suboxans can work. I think god everyday for my recovery program Analensgi, but the simple truth is you have to wanna quit for any solution to work, meds or otherwise.

  • John b

    Free from active addiction means you don’t take anything. I have experienced both detox of heroin and suboxon and there both devastating but through the pain is where I grow the most. I have seen and heard of people have major surjurys, kidney transplants and many others and took nothing!! If you are truly willing to go to any length to get clean then do it. My sponsor never had these “products” and his sponsor before him and his before him. If you truly believe in the 12 steps and the program of NA or AA then you shouldn’t need suboxon, methodone or any mind and body altering substances. From what I see from the memebers who cannot stop the “detox” maintance program, don’t surrender to a new way of life. If it’s such a minimal amount, way take it?? Thank your for this topic, it is very relevant in today’s world.

  • thunderheart

    I think you have deviated too much into creating a cult like following-mentality more than than AA has. Perhaps those days in front of the TV cameras have inflated your ego too much. Just like Drew, too Hollywood minded, no earthly good. AA doesn’t need to defend itself from you or anyone else. I suggest you put your ego in check or may end up with a bottle on your hands.

    • kinginyellow

      AA should reveal the results of any studies/tests that do/do not support their 12 step methods. AA should be able to defend their methods… stating that anyone person, organization, etc dealing with a facet of mental health doesn’t need to defend it self is ridiculous.

  • Sally Stewart

    Thank you, Bob, always.

  • Susan Elizabeth Paliwoda

    I am in my 6th year of recovery (no harm reduction here) from everything that would alter my mind or body. I work in recovery and I see a lot of harm from Suboxone. Why detox TWICE? Suboxone could not possibly be GOOD for you, you have got to taper off to 0mg someday….so why start taking it? I think that most people would choose not to start taking it if they knew the ramifications. I have a younger brother who has been a heroin user for 25 years. He is in prison now (his 12th term) I like him to be there where he is safe. Suboxone is what he uses to get off heroin, heroin is what he uses to get off Suboxone!!?? Vicious circle.

  • Ron Israel

    The booze and the dope are but symptoms. The problem rests in the fact that we as group are intolerant of others. We fall prey to that sense of self-centeredness that drove us to addiction in the first place. Ever ready to criticize the person not following the “party line”. All or nothing, rules the day ! Abstinence is one thing, sobriety is another. I have seen people with more sobriety at 2 years than some others who were abstinent for 10 years. Everybody comes in as a newcomer, some of us forget what that was like. That’s dangerous, in more ways than one. Many will die because they did not feel welcomed , they felt judged , misunderstood and condemned. I need to check myself. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world (others) as on what needs to be changed in me and my attitudes. For who am I to cast the first stone.

  • Pak Jenggot

    …the best way to get off drugs is to get off drugs…..I have pain issues too…..so I deal with the physical pain, the same way I deal with the pain of dealing with everyday life…..go through it with out the use of drugs……a strange thing happens, after time of doing this simple procedure for day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year……life is easier to deal with……pain is easier to deal with…..the doctors are encouraged(through financial gain) to give patients drugs, and keep them on drugs……substituting one drug for another is just that, it’s a win win for everyone involved but the addict…..the 12 step programs have so many grey-areas, that people are claiming to be sober while under the influence of drugs……at least there are people like bob out there telling you the truth……I say get off drugs…..life is life, and you definitely, can not see it clearly while on drugs…..

  • thedofl

    Yes you do digress, what is the point about AA doing in this post?

  • Gina

    I’m an RN and work ERs in an area where prescription addiction is so rampant that our medication dispenser has a whole drawer dedicated to Narcan. Suboxone is a cruel joke.

  • mitzilani

    Yes! So glad someone else agrees with me. The way this stuff is being used is evil, which is too bad because it was originally conceived as a safe, effective way to get OFF of methadone maintenance without the horrible months long kick one normally experiences. It was never intended as a maintenance drug itself.

    My other beef with suboxone is that it contributed to the death of two close friends, both were being prescribed massive doses of suboxone to combat heroin addiction, both died not realizing how dangerous a drug it is to be taking willy-nilly. They both were entirely unaware of that it might cause a worse drug habit than what it was meant to treat. (much like methadone)

    These pill doctors hand out scripts to this stuff to anybody who has the cash. They don’t offer counseling or any kind of oversight as to how it being used. Indeed, “Motherf#&!ing lying sacks of shit.” Thank you, Bob

  • Lori

    In my younger years I was first an alcoholic, then a “garbage head” until finding heroin. That took precedence over everything. I finally got clean in prison, as a lot of addicts do, and had no real rehab save for the fact that I did not want to end up like those around me, coming back in time and time again. I finally wanted a life…I wanted to live. That lasted over 15 years until I started working at a methadone clinic and was surrounded by a lot of addicts who were still using. That and having a family member who lived with me get hooked on pills, then heroin. I was surrounded by drugs and “drug talk” all day, every day. I relapsed. I am not balming anyone. I did not have the balls to say no to it when I knew better. The relapse lasted a year when I went back to the doctor that had helped keep me alive all those years ago. Prison got me sober, but I would not have been alive to have reached any type of sobreity without this doctor. He did not believe in methadone, but DID prescribe Suboxone. I was on it for almost a year before I tapered off of it, and had no problems doing so. It saved my job, my life and my family members life (who also successfully stopped taking it and led a normal life thereafter). Had I gone the old route, I woudl certainly have lost my job, apartment, and everything else I worked for in the process of trying to get clean. With Suboxone (which tastes so awful I cannot image why anyone would want to abuse it), I could keep up with all of those things and detox as slowly as needed. And I needed to get off drugs fast…..Lord only knows if this go round with my addictions would have been my last. You may disagree, but when it comes to people getting off heroin or other drugs, I say “do whatever works”. If addicition truly is a disease, then what would be the problem with medication management? We take pills for mental disorders and physical disorders to control symptoms and keep the bad effects at bay, sometimes needing to do so for the rest of our lives, so why is it so bad for addiction to be treated in a similar way? At the methadone clinic I worked at, I saw people turn from not being able to fuction on most levels, to holding jobs, buying cars/homes, starting families…..I agree this should not be the avenue taken the first time out, but when other treatments have tried and failed, why put the persons life at further risk when taking these medications may help them and/or save them from their addictions? It allows them to detox slowly and still be able to fuction while doing so. In my case, and this being my second major go round, it was not necessary for me to lose everything and hit rock bottom. I knew I was in trouble long before that. NOT going through that gave me the motivation to get clean again. I say “whatever works” and gets that person away from drugs. Saving alife is worth any proce to pay.

    • spk

      Awesome success story Lori. Love it !!

  • Lori

    And for all those who say wait until you run out…there should be no reason you do if you are serious and diligent about ending your addiction. If you can come up with the money for dope, you can come up with the money for this.

    • spk

      If you don’t abuse them and have a reputable doctor, there is no reason to run out. I don’t take the whole 8 mg so I acquired a few extra strips that I put aside for just that reason. Still I have never needed them. I don’t fill my script every 30 days either, I could never do that with any other pain meds. When my pain issues are in check, will look forward to tapering more.

  • Vicki

    I was a fan of Bobs all the way.. Until this!

  • Panthoras Box

    What I am most uncomfortable with Mr Bob Forrest is not that like every addict/alcoholic you have an OPINION but that your judgement carries weight in your PERSONAL STATUS. I have respected your readings in the past but this I strongly disagree with. I got suboxone treatment and as a result have over 3 years without living in hell that I once was in. It doesn’t help either for a person to go to a meeting and not be able to share thoroughly about their recovery for fear of being judged so harshly! The 2 things that you wrote untrue:
    1. Suboxone does not cost $1.000 for everyone.
    2.The treatment does not target ‘inveterate’ addicts, (my experience was the opposite was true.)

    The only part of this treatment I question for the modern day snake charmers would be the length of time prescribed to a patient. Personally mine was 3 months.

  • Marlo Page

    My friend JT was taking Suboxone and going to AA meetings after a long brutal heroin addiction. He kept telling me that the drug didn’t get him high AT ALL. I never really believed him, but one night he was working in the ER at County Hospital and he had run out of Suboxone. It was a particularly stressfull night and he had gotten into some trouble at work. (nothing big) but on his way home, he decided to stop in downtown to score because he was getting sick from withdrawls. He bought drugs, went home and OD’d. He worked the night shift and was planning to go to the meeting we had that morning. He had the bag of AA books with him in the bathroom when he was found. Poor dude. I miss him.

  • Shawn Morrissey

    Hi Bob. Thank you! Inveterate…insured. Potato…po-tah-to. Of all the suboxone users I know (and there are many), I can think of few for whom it is a valid and rightly indicated measure. And that’s not knocking the drug; just its handlers.

    I sure do hate to see Harm Reduction as a philosophy, aligned with buprenorphine as the treatment/business model it has become. I no more think that harm reduction intends itself to serve as the philosophic arm of the pharmaceutical community, any more than Bill Wilson envisioned Alcoholics Anonymous as a court or medical ordered diversion solution. Which is not to say that both don’t get packaged that way. It happens. As a harm reductionist, and a sober member of the 12-step community, I take it as my personal responsibility to live those two philosophies in the spirit and manner in which they were created and envisioned, rather than the zero tolerance reimagining of the 12-step program or the “anything goes” repackaging of Harm Reduction that they have become.

    In its best and simplest terms I view harm reduction, true harm reduction, as the umbrella under which all potential treatments or modalities fall. 12-steps is as valid a Harm Reduction path for the individual who favors abstinence, as needle exchange is for the woman or man who is not yet ready. In the absence of an abstinence based solution, I believe Harm Reduction aims to keep the individual as safe and as healthy as possible, as we move toward our better selves. I credit some of its strategies as instrumental in my arriving at my own sobriety with my liver somewhat intact, and not having contracted HIV/Hep-C.

    As the saying goes…harm reduction works, because rehab has a 100% failure rate for dead people.

    And of course, the greatest Harm Reduction quote of all time….”Keep Coming Back!”

    I appreciate you and I thank you for all your good and hard work!

  • David McBurnett

    Suboxone sucks. Its only benefit if helping with a quick detox. Leaving anyone on Suboxone for more than 30 days and you gave them a worse addiction that they had before.

  • Xrathe

    I know several people that go to the clinic ritually to get their fix. They almost all buy/sell them like clockwork to each other was well. I’ve seen them take more than their recommended dosage to get ,messed up just like any other drug. How anybody can sit and say it’s not just a normal drug open for abuse is absolutely delusional. If you’re taking it, you’re not clean and you’re definitely not sober.